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	<title>Comments on: An update&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://andrewg.tv/blog/2008/01/28/an-update/</link>
	<description>This has nothing to do with anyone I work for or with.      I hope you like it. Thanks for coming.</description>
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		<title>By: lanivishnu</title>
		<link>http://andrewg.tv/blog/2008/01/28/an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-54384</link>
		<dc:creator>lanivishnu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 13:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewg.tv/blog/index.php/an-update/#comment-54384</guid>
		<description>well said, andrew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well said, andrew.</p>
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		<title>By: TomLawrence</title>
		<link>http://andrewg.tv/blog/2008/01/28/an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-36391</link>
		<dc:creator>TomLawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewg.tv/blog/index.php/an-update/#comment-36391</guid>
		<description>This is great. Good points from both sides here, I can&#039;t even decide what I believe any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is great. Good points from both sides here, I can&#8217;t even decide what I believe any more.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffro</title>
		<link>http://andrewg.tv/blog/2008/01/28/an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-36375</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewg.tv/blog/index.php/an-update/#comment-36375</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;arc angel )(&lt;/em&gt;, yes it appears that you have significantly misunderstood my point. The point of the &lt;em&gt;inverse&lt;/em&gt; of your comparison, of transferring a person from what seems like a more harsh environment into a nice comfortable air-conditioned one, is comical on face value &lt;em&gt;because&lt;/em&gt; some people might imagine that such a shift could not possibly result in hardship. However, hardship does result because of the culture shock involved in the relatively sudden and forced nature of that change. There was no intention of implying that either lifestyle is less fulfilling or meaningful - it is that &lt;em&gt;change&lt;/em&gt; that results in a loss of sense of meaning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>arc angel )(</em>, yes it appears that you have significantly misunderstood my point. The point of the <em>inverse</em> of your comparison, of transferring a person from what seems like a more harsh environment into a nice comfortable air-conditioned one, is comical on face value <em>because</em> some people might imagine that such a shift could not possibly result in hardship. However, hardship does result because of the culture shock involved in the relatively sudden and forced nature of that change. There was no intention of implying that either lifestyle is less fulfilling or meaningful &#8211; it is that <em>change</em> that results in a loss of sense of meaning.</p>
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		<title>By: arc angel  )(</title>
		<link>http://andrewg.tv/blog/2008/01/28/an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-36347</link>
		<dc:creator>arc angel  )(</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewg.tv/blog/index.php/an-update/#comment-36347</guid>
		<description>For what it is worth Jeffro I enjoy reading your comments and think you have a diverse knowledge on many subjects. I found it interesting though that you saw the inverse of my comparison on lifestyle/culture comical on face value. You go on later to say you dearly hope people one day rise above thier delusional beliefs of being superior to others.
Aren&#039;t you displaying this same superiority when you assume that living as Indigenous Australians (on a rock) is less fulfilling or meaningful than living like newer Australians (in cushy comfort). This is only your perception not a fact. Or have I misunderstood your point?
Of course you can find countless examples of similar past events in the histories of countries across the world, but not all of their Indigenous peoples are in the same shameful and desperate trouble that our Australian brothers and sisters are.
The Maouri people for example are thriving and their culture is celebrated throughout New Zealand. The Haka is used by visiting sporting teams and performed at important events with pride. These people hold a most worthy place in New Zealand society.
I truly believe that our Indigenous Australians do not feel that sense of worth and no amount of government handouts will rectify this.
I am heartened to see my children learning about and celebrating Australian Aboriginal culture in primary school. I hope that this next generation will find the compassion and wisdom and understanding that the current generation seems to be lacking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it is worth Jeffro I enjoy reading your comments and think you have a diverse knowledge on many subjects. I found it interesting though that you saw the inverse of my comparison on lifestyle/culture comical on face value. You go on later to say you dearly hope people one day rise above thier delusional beliefs of being superior to others.<br />
Aren&#8217;t you displaying this same superiority when you assume that living as Indigenous Australians (on a rock) is less fulfilling or meaningful than living like newer Australians (in cushy comfort). This is only your perception not a fact. Or have I misunderstood your point?<br />
Of course you can find countless examples of similar past events in the histories of countries across the world, but not all of their Indigenous peoples are in the same shameful and desperate trouble that our Australian brothers and sisters are.<br />
The Maouri people for example are thriving and their culture is celebrated throughout New Zealand. The Haka is used by visiting sporting teams and performed at important events with pride. These people hold a most worthy place in New Zealand society.<br />
I truly believe that our Indigenous Australians do not feel that sense of worth and no amount of government handouts will rectify this.<br />
I am heartened to see my children learning about and celebrating Australian Aboriginal culture in primary school. I hope that this next generation will find the compassion and wisdom and understanding that the current generation seems to be lacking.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffro</title>
		<link>http://andrewg.tv/blog/2008/01/28/an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-36249</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewg.tv/blog/index.php/an-update/#comment-36249</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;arc angel )(&lt;/em&gt; raised an important point about how indigenous Australians had a working system, though it was an idealised view. Though their system may not have been quite the rosy utopia that some would have us believe, the significant fact is that they have been forced to undergo an extreme sociological shift. Though the inverse of &lt;em&gt;arc angel )(&lt;/em&gt;&#039;s comparison may seem comical at face value (&#039;plucked from a rock in the middle of nowhere and plonked out in a comfortable, air conditioned, cushy existence&#039;), it is a significant issue that leads many to a sense of emptiness, and for some, this begets substance abuse and other social problems.

It is truly sad, and we should be saddened by it. But I didn&#039;t do it, and I can do nothing to undo it. I can no more take the blame than I can take any credit for the benefits that have also come along with the hardships. It is not my fault that indigenous Australians have a lower life expectancy (though I haven&#039;t seen any information indicating what their life expectancy was prior to &#039;white settlement&#039;), just as it is no one else&#039;s fault that I can expect to live six years less than the average woman. I am all for reconciliation in its true sense, but I am not for the use of the term &#039;reconciliation&#039; as employed by some: as an emotive soapbox to define any and all issues, real and imagined, used as a tool to perpetuate social division and anger. Yes, speak up about reconciliation. But speak up about solutions, not just problems.

Getting back to Andrew&#039;s point: &quot;We live the way that we do now, because years ago, people who had nothing to do with us did things that we would never do ourselves, though we enjoy the eventual results.&quot; This is not new, and the statement can be applied manyfold to events throughout human history. And each time it has happened has not made it any less wrong. I would dearly like to think that people have finally begun to rise above their delusional beliefs that they are superior to others (usually because &#039;god&#039; allegedly told them they are).

To quote Hippocrates, &quot;Declare the past, diagnose the present, foretell the future ... make a habit of two things — to help, or at least to do no harm.&quot; When discussing emotive injustices, people often have trouble separating those first two things. By no means should the past be ignored or hidden. But it should be acknowledged that it is in the past, and attention should be focussed on resolving the truly important issues of what is happening to people &lt;em&gt;now&lt;/em&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>arc angel )(</em> raised an important point about how indigenous Australians had a working system, though it was an idealised view. Though their system may not have been quite the rosy utopia that some would have us believe, the significant fact is that they have been forced to undergo an extreme sociological shift. Though the inverse of <em>arc angel )(</em>&#8216;s comparison may seem comical at face value (&#8216;plucked from a rock in the middle of nowhere and plonked out in a comfortable, air conditioned, cushy existence&#8217;), it is a significant issue that leads many to a sense of emptiness, and for some, this begets substance abuse and other social problems.</p>
<p>It is truly sad, and we should be saddened by it. But I didn&#8217;t do it, and I can do nothing to undo it. I can no more take the blame than I can take any credit for the benefits that have also come along with the hardships. It is not my fault that indigenous Australians have a lower life expectancy (though I haven&#8217;t seen any information indicating what their life expectancy was prior to &#8216;white settlement&#8217;), just as it is no one else&#8217;s fault that I can expect to live six years less than the average woman. I am all for reconciliation in its true sense, but I am not for the use of the term &#8216;reconciliation&#8217; as employed by some: as an emotive soapbox to define any and all issues, real and imagined, used as a tool to perpetuate social division and anger. Yes, speak up about reconciliation. But speak up about solutions, not just problems.</p>
<p>Getting back to Andrew&#8217;s point: &#8220;We live the way that we do now, because years ago, people who had nothing to do with us did things that we would never do ourselves, though we enjoy the eventual results.&#8221; This is not new, and the statement can be applied manyfold to events throughout human history. And each time it has happened has not made it any less wrong. I would dearly like to think that people have finally begun to rise above their delusional beliefs that they are superior to others (usually because &#8216;god&#8217; allegedly told them they are).</p>
<p>To quote Hippocrates, &#8220;Declare the past, diagnose the present, foretell the future &#8230; make a habit of two things — to help, or at least to do no harm.&#8221; When discussing emotive injustices, people often have trouble separating those first two things. By no means should the past be ignored or hidden. But it should be acknowledged that it is in the past, and attention should be focussed on resolving the truly important issues of what is happening to people <em>now</em>.</p>
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		<title>By: arc angel  )(</title>
		<link>http://andrewg.tv/blog/2008/01/28/an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-36230</link>
		<dc:creator>arc angel  )(</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewg.tv/blog/index.php/an-update/#comment-36230</guid>
		<description>Andrew (not G) I thank you for your opinion and respect it even if I don&#039;t agree with it.
You may well be correct and if you are it does not alter my opinion. It all comes down to a shift in attitude and doing what is the right thing. 
We can go on forever arguing the ins and outs of who was here first and for how long and how they lived and so forth. 
This is where we continually get bogged down and people like you get frustrated with the lack of any real working solution.
Lets get on with it and do the right thing so that we can all eventually celebrate Australia Day with real pride and move forward. 
Yes Australians are all equal, it is just that some are unfortunately more equal than others!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew (not G) I thank you for your opinion and respect it even if I don&#8217;t agree with it.<br />
You may well be correct and if you are it does not alter my opinion. It all comes down to a shift in attitude and doing what is the right thing.<br />
We can go on forever arguing the ins and outs of who was here first and for how long and how they lived and so forth.<br />
This is where we continually get bogged down and people like you get frustrated with the lack of any real working solution.<br />
Lets get on with it and do the right thing so that we can all eventually celebrate Australia Day with real pride and move forward.<br />
Yes Australians are all equal, it is just that some are unfortunately more equal than others!</p>
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		<title>By: andrew (not G)</title>
		<link>http://andrewg.tv/blog/2008/01/28/an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-36229</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew (not G)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 05:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewg.tv/blog/index.php/an-update/#comment-36229</guid>
		<description>I have to weigh in again.

&lt;i&gt;arc angel&lt;/i&gt;, you have bought into the romanticised depiction of indigenous Australians which is propagated by the AFI and Film Victoria.

There is scientific evidence which supports the fact that the dead heart was not always dead. It was a flourishing, verdant landscape with many bodies of water etc. All that was burned off. By guess who?

Some plants/trees need to be burned off. The majority, however, do not survive it. Indigenous Australians were nowhere near as &quot;in touch with the land&quot; as many believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to weigh in again.</p>
<p><i>arc angel</i>, you have bought into the romanticised depiction of indigenous Australians which is propagated by the AFI and Film Victoria.</p>
<p>There is scientific evidence which supports the fact that the dead heart was not always dead. It was a flourishing, verdant landscape with many bodies of water etc. All that was burned off. By guess who?</p>
<p>Some plants/trees need to be burned off. The majority, however, do not survive it. Indigenous Australians were nowhere near as &#8220;in touch with the land&#8221; as many believe.</p>
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		<title>By: arc angel  )(</title>
		<link>http://andrewg.tv/blog/2008/01/28/an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-36208</link>
		<dc:creator>arc angel  )(</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewg.tv/blog/index.php/an-update/#comment-36208</guid>
		<description>I feel the aspect of this issue that people keep getting hung up about is the responsibility thing.
I know the compensation side of things has a lot to do with this fact.
Saying sorry shows Indigenous Australians that there is understanding,compassion and a desire to right wrongs suffered by their ancestors at the hands of our ancestors.
These people enjoyed a healthy and happy existence in this great land for thousands of years. They managed their food supply and respected and protected the animals and environment and had a system of law that kept relative peace in their communities.
Can we newcomers boast the same?
It is not at all surprising that these people struggle in almost every regard in our society. Look at how rapidly and vastly their way of life has changed.
Would I fair any better if I were to be plucked from my comfortable, air conditioned, cushy existence and plonked out on a rock in the middle of nowhere? I think it may be a slight culture shock!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel the aspect of this issue that people keep getting hung up about is the responsibility thing.<br />
I know the compensation side of things has a lot to do with this fact.<br />
Saying sorry shows Indigenous Australians that there is understanding,compassion and a desire to right wrongs suffered by their ancestors at the hands of our ancestors.<br />
These people enjoyed a healthy and happy existence in this great land for thousands of years. They managed their food supply and respected and protected the animals and environment and had a system of law that kept relative peace in their communities.<br />
Can we newcomers boast the same?<br />
It is not at all surprising that these people struggle in almost every regard in our society. Look at how rapidly and vastly their way of life has changed.<br />
Would I fair any better if I were to be plucked from my comfortable, air conditioned, cushy existence and plonked out on a rock in the middle of nowhere? I think it may be a slight culture shock!</p>
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		<title>By: thinkingal</title>
		<link>http://andrewg.tv/blog/2008/01/28/an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-36200</link>
		<dc:creator>thinkingal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewg.tv/blog/index.php/an-update/#comment-36200</guid>
		<description>Indigenous health issues have not improved in the past 20 years - it&#039;s commonly known that Indigenous people can expect to live 17 years less than the non-Indigenous population of Australia.

There is no gradual improvement in this area - it is stagnant, and it is stagnant for one reason - the majority of Australians have not made it a priority for our Government to &quot;fix&quot;.

Indigneous deaths in incarceration are significantly higher than the white population: in fact, incarceration is higher, full stop.

The NT intervention is a perfect example of how an emotive issue (child sexual abuse) was used to take away rights of Indigenous communities, and tar them all with the same brush: that of abusive, alcoholic, dole-bludging losers.

I agree, we (white Australians) are not personally responsible for the atrocities that have occurred in the past 200+ years, but for the decisions made by our Governments in our own adult lives, we are. We must speak up, and we must make reconciliation an issue. To do otherwise, does make us personally responsible: yet, that view is likely to be unpopular as it&#039;s easy to say that by doing nothing, you are not adding to the burden.

I quote English philosopher Edmund Burke who said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’ Silence shapes our history just as much as actions committed by others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indigenous health issues have not improved in the past 20 years &#8211; it&#8217;s commonly known that Indigenous people can expect to live 17 years less than the non-Indigenous population of Australia.</p>
<p>There is no gradual improvement in this area &#8211; it is stagnant, and it is stagnant for one reason &#8211; the majority of Australians have not made it a priority for our Government to &#8220;fix&#8221;.</p>
<p>Indigneous deaths in incarceration are significantly higher than the white population: in fact, incarceration is higher, full stop.</p>
<p>The NT intervention is a perfect example of how an emotive issue (child sexual abuse) was used to take away rights of Indigenous communities, and tar them all with the same brush: that of abusive, alcoholic, dole-bludging losers.</p>
<p>I agree, we (white Australians) are not personally responsible for the atrocities that have occurred in the past 200+ years, but for the decisions made by our Governments in our own adult lives, we are. We must speak up, and we must make reconciliation an issue. To do otherwise, does make us personally responsible: yet, that view is likely to be unpopular as it&#8217;s easy to say that by doing nothing, you are not adding to the burden.</p>
<p>I quote English philosopher Edmund Burke who said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’ Silence shapes our history just as much as actions committed by others.</p>
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		<title>By: nigeltde</title>
		<link>http://andrewg.tv/blog/2008/01/28/an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-36195</link>
		<dc:creator>nigeltde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewg.tv/blog/index.php/an-update/#comment-36195</guid>
		<description>Jeffro,

To say that the worst of it is past is technically accurate, to the extent that massacres are worse than getting up each morning afraid that your children might have killed themselves in the night. Of course I am glad for the small steps forward, for gradual improvement, but that doesn&#039;t mean I can&#039;t criticise past misguided policy and individual action, or acknowledge the relationship between present-day disadvantage and past atrocity. 

This relationship is important, and acknowledging it doesn&#039;t automatically mean living in the past or casting everyone involved as permanent victim or permanent villain. Acknowledging this relationship is not simply rehashing the past, as you suggest, but is essential in achieving reconciliation and dialogue. It is essential in promoting in the general public wider understanding of and a lived, personal engagement with the human rights travesties that currently exist in this country. It is also essential in guiding governmental policy so that it is sensitive and not blindly, arrogantly paternalistic, and can also point the way forward to positive action, both symbolic and concrete.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeffro,</p>
<p>To say that the worst of it is past is technically accurate, to the extent that massacres are worse than getting up each morning afraid that your children might have killed themselves in the night. Of course I am glad for the small steps forward, for gradual improvement, but that doesn&#8217;t mean I can&#8217;t criticise past misguided policy and individual action, or acknowledge the relationship between present-day disadvantage and past atrocity. </p>
<p>This relationship is important, and acknowledging it doesn&#8217;t automatically mean living in the past or casting everyone involved as permanent victim or permanent villain. Acknowledging this relationship is not simply rehashing the past, as you suggest, but is essential in achieving reconciliation and dialogue. It is essential in promoting in the general public wider understanding of and a lived, personal engagement with the human rights travesties that currently exist in this country. It is also essential in guiding governmental policy so that it is sensitive and not blindly, arrogantly paternalistic, and can also point the way forward to positive action, both symbolic and concrete.</p>
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