Filed under: General
So, a politician went to a strip club, four years ago, in another country.
As a result he’s being crucified for it.
Now – bear in mind that I have not researched the policies of that particular party enough just yet, so my next statement does not apply to him per se:
If a politician that I liked went to a strip club, he’d have more in common with me than a politician who had never been in a strip club.
That’s a man of the people, people.
I certainly believe that this kind of political and public flaying of a man’s character, over and incident that occurred years ago in a foreign country is a pathetic mockery of our precious democratic process.
How far back do you want to go when making a judgement on someone? How far into the private details of their personal lives do you need to see to know if he’s a good man or not. How many things can you take out of context and hold against someone?
Think about how you would feel if you were subjected to the same scrutiny?
And above all of this, do the things that our politicians do in their personal lives hold a candle to the moral judgement calls that they make in their offices in Canberra (eg: education funding, ongoing Aboriginal health issues, sustainability of our lifestyle) that they wash their hands of afterwards saying, “I was just doing my job”.
I will tell you one thing – the men (yes they’re all men) who are in charge over how much you pay for groceries, petrol, your phone bill, your car, your beers, your day to day expenses – these men have more control over how you live than anyone you’ll ever vote for.
I will guarantee hands down, each and every one of those business men has attended a strip club on an overseas business trip once in their lives.
How much do you care about that?
A grown man away from his wife and kids out with the boys in NYC?
There’s practically a shuttle bus from the hotel to Scores or Flashdancers.
For fuck’s sake, give the man a break.
Sometimes when you’re on a business trip and need to get information out of an increasingly boozed-up and loose-lipped potential client or political ally, you go wherever the night takes you.
I mean, really.
Your children idolise sportsmen who party like madmen in foreign countries on their end of season trips, men who have been far more well documented doing far more risque things, and you’ve no problem with their poster being on your kids’ wall.
The man may have had some clue that he was shooting for PM back then, and may have had an idea about how clean to keep his image, though going to a strip club once does not constitute a breach of character as far as I’m concerned.
If he went every day, at 3pm – then I may be worried.
If he sat in front of a pokie machine wasting his life away every day, then I’d be worried.
Until then, leave the man alone and get back on the real issues please.
This entire process is quickly becoming reminiscent of the
Andrew Günsberg vs. Patrick Dooley affair of early 1987, except that we were twelve years old, and we behaved somewhat more maturely than this about our brief rivalry.
A businessman goes on an overseas trip, and in the process of entertaining a political ally, ends up at a strip club.
He got there, figured it out, and apparently split fairly quickly.
He felt it was important to apologise to his wife about it, and he did.
Years later when asked about it in public, he felt he should apologise to the people, and so he did.
Do we not then leave it alone?
You can’t say it on Sunrise or Alan Jones or Lawsie so I’ll say it here.
BIG FUCKIN WOOP.
Get on with the real job and stop wasting everybody’s time.
xx aa
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If Mrs. Rudd is fine with it then so am I. I encouraged my own husband not to pike out on a bucks night outing recently. I only wish other establishments had such strict rules on behaviour of patrons.
I’m far more interested in the fact my kids are in danger of having music tuition slashed as part of their education. Music just for rich kids now?
The fact that dangerous criminals get let out after token sentences worries me too.
That’s worthy front page news at election time!
DISCLAIMER: I’m 25 and probably young enough to be considered stupid.
I agree that it isn’t something worth harping over, because we have bigger things to worry about, not because it was OK.
I think you are missing a few details, least of all the campaign the ALP is running against Howard which does exactly what you are talking about here. Digs up details from the past and sheds a new light on them. The most recent on i saw goes back 3 terms and brings up figures about interest prices, without taking things like CPI and other economic factors into account.
Second of all, he was representing Australia at an international event with diplomats from all over the world.
Our “children” are the people who are going to vote in someone because “we need a change” not because they have the interests of the nation in their minds. sheesh, that’s the bigger issue… this doesn’t bode well for the next 5 years of our country. What happened to economics 101?
DPN:
You’re precisely correct.
I couldn’t agree more.
I guess the point I was trying to make was that this kind of ridiculous back and forth and using out of context incidents to sully another’s reputation is just ridiculous.
Many political parties have degenerated into this kind of muck raking, and by no means is the accused man’s party innocent of it either.
For God’s sake, these people yell at each other in parliament like kids in a schoolyard, playing “Oh yeah? Well what about when you did this in 1996?” games.
The fact that our political process has degenerated into looking backwards rather than forwards is what frustrates me.
It seems to me that most of the precious time that our politicians whom we elect to have our voice get to spend together is spent accusing each other of how shit they are in an effort to hold on to their jobs, rather than getting on with the task of making our country workable five, ten, fifty years into the future.
Thanks for pointing this out Dpn,
I hope that I’ve clarified my position a little more.
I guess it’s more,
“Get on with using the voice that we have given you to make our country great, rather than make your opponent look bad.”
but that may change as the day wears on.
xx aa
hear hear. (that’s one they use a lot isn’t it? Normally followed by lots of trying to talk over each other)
But seriously I agree, your clarifications couldn’t be clearer.
One of the biggest problems that I think our democratic process has, is that people are very fickle with their votes.
Often, voters think they are voting for “John Howard” or “Kevin” when, in fact, they’re voting for the policies and promises of a greater political body – these things that will actually make a difference and impact on the lives of Australians.
Think about it, have Kevvo’s policies changed since he was outed for venting his marital frustrations? No they haven’t. So lets all move on?
@dpn That’s why they’re called “clarifications”
I do think this is an issue Andrew as Mr Rudd keeps talking about his religious beliefs and morals in all interviews I have seen him in. He is quite happy to point out Mr Howards faults and past, yet making himself comes across as this clean and morally correct person. Double standards come straight to my mind. If he is willing to compromise now and then on his morals then what is he going to be willing to compromise on when it comes to our country.
I too agree with your point of view. In fact if Mr Rudd or any other male human species has not been to a strip club, got drunk, been bad, done something naughty or raunchy – would they be normal? I don’t think so!
Angel,
You will notice that in my reply to David’s comment I further clarified my point of view to say that MANY politicians are guilty of muck raking, and that it’s a schoolyard practice that insults the very votes we have given these people.
xx aa
Yes I did see that comment you made Andrew. It was meant to come across as I was agreeing with David’s comment and yours but adding my little bit at the same time.
I would also like to make a small point with you Andrew. This is a genuine question and I am NOT having a go at you. Why do you feel it necessary to swear to make your point. I just think an intelligent man like yourself with a great vocabulary with all your scrabble playing, feels the need swear to make your point of view. I feel it diminishes what you are saying because I think that you make great points at times. Yes it is your website and you can do what you like. I don’t have to visit it if I don’t want to. I would be interested in your comments about this though.
I am also enoying the debates and comments of everyone else that take the time to come on to your website. There’s some interesting points of view being made.
I think that it has a lot to do with the news outlets these days. There has to be more than a story of a guy going to a strip club, but it seems not.
Using Google News (news.google.com.au) as an example of Australian news:
Kevin Rudd Story: 421 Articles
Melton Murder: 15 Articles
Child Porn Case: 12 Articles
Rock Thrower meets Family: 12 Articles
Accused Killer Dad: 53 Articles
As far as I can tell it’s the old adage of sex sells, and simple gossip. It’s the same reason why we hear so much about Brittany Spears, Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan etc…
This stuff simple isn’t “News”.
Good points all, G. I mean, the guy went in, and left once he realised the kind of place it was, before even finishing his drink. Contrary to what Angel said, he stood up for his own morals by leaving, though he would have been within his own rights to stay. You left out one imporant thing though… the relevant HTML tags: <rant> </rant>
Four years since Rudd went through the doors
Of a New York strip club they call “Scores”.
“Oh no, this won’t do”
Had a beer an’ shot through.
Now its fuel for inane election wars.
Interesting blog Andrew, I completely agree. I am turning 18 this year and as such it will be the first time I can vote, so I have taken an interest a new interest in my countries politics. I can honestly say that all of the muck flinging is utterly confusing and I hope as I get older I get used to it. I don’t care if the man (or woman) representing me and my country isnt a perfect blank slate of a person, I want someone who has relevant values to today’s society.
Also, Andrew I went to the ABC’s 75th birthday celebration in Perth on Sunday it was amazing. What do you think of the ABC? Got any favourite show’s from the past or the present? Any favourite moments? I myself could not live without my daily does of Triple J.
Have a wikid day.
To answer your question Angel,
I swear when I type because, well – that’s how I talk.
Yes, surprise! I swear. Lots.
And I use all the good words, too.
I believe in this particular context though, by typing those words, you get a better idea of how I feel about the issue.
My view on swearing is directly drawn from one of my heroes, Stephen Fry (Black Adder, Fry and Laurie, V is for Vendetta).
His point is that one can freely say words that describe things you would never wish on yourself or loved ones or even your enemies.
Words that describe horrid and cruel things that conjure evil and despicable images: Torture, Murder, Rape.
These words are more than acceptable.
However, one can’t say the word “fuck”, a word describing an act that we all came from, and possibly all would rather be doing than reading this.
The illogical idea of keeping these two standards is what Mr. Fry points out, and is an idea that I concur with.
I hope that makes things clearer.
xx aa
Color Scientist: Forget the PR firm marketing BS. Ads for politicians on TV are like ads for Nike on television. Huge PR stunts. You need to look deeper, think about how policies will affect the economy, and maybe even look at how they will affect you directly.
Ignore the mud slinging.
Just V for Vendetta, G. No ‘is’. Fry’s the bomb, everything he says is worth listening to.
Muckraking on a personal level isn’t exactly just. However, muckraking a political level is more than fair. After all, what’s more telling? The fact Rudd once stepped briefly into a strip club, or the fact Howard has lied to the country about his actions repeatedly?
And it’s not like doing ‘blokey’ stuff isn’t going to gain Rudd some support. Didn’t Hawke hold the world record for scolling a yard glass?
Tom xoxo
Jeffro
My understanding with the Mr Rudd situation, was that he got drunk and didn’t leave. That’s what I have read and heard. This is why he is having such a so-called, hard time recalling what happened on that night. Surely the media wouldn’t get it wrong, would they?
Andrew
Thank you for clearing that matter up. Anything that involves Stephen Fry needs no explanantion. One of the greatest comedians along side Hugh Laurie. I’ve never heard that explanation from him before. May the swearing continue,(not that I didn’t think you didn’t swear when talking). Curiosity simply got the better of me. I just had to ask.
What a great debate you have going on this blog about politics. Well done to everyone.
Angel,
<sarcastic>I guess you’re right. Far be it from the media to sensationalise something.</sarcastic>
So glad you’ve said this Andrew. I am personally SO OVER the media beat up of Kevin Rudd over something that doesn’t concern us. I saw some wanker on Sunrise yesterday trying to justify why it is the beat up continues, toss bag! What he does with his own time, and last I checked none of us work 24/7 do we, is his own business.
I think it’s time the media moved on and got a real news story!
Something i just thought of that is the most disturbing thing in the world. John Howard has most likely had sex.. God i hope there is no tapes that could become leaked.
How will i remove this image from my head?
Hutch save me!
The Rudd/strip club story on ABC’s The 7.30 Report the other night – and my ranting (I’m totally with you, Andrew) – broke through my 12-year old daughter’s Nintendo trance, and when the story and I had finished, she simply said, “well John Howard has to find SOMETHING,” before getting back to training her virtual puppies. There’s hope for the future after all.
candy_loaded_kat… ewwwwww.
At least It wasn’t Bob Geldof. He never washes, No wonder Paula left him.
I fuckin’ love swearing. pooheadcuntdickshitstiffy.
Andrew
Yes you did make it clearer why you use swear words. If it is such a natural thing for you to do, then why don’t you swear on TV? Are you not being yourself? Do you swear around your parents or to the public when they speak to you?
Yes I am guilty of swearing now and then but I just feel that people use the “F” word to freely these days. It’s not the swearing that gets to me, it’s the “F” word. I just feel that some people say it simply because they can and for shock value. They don’t have the respect for other people around them.
Jeffro
I too was being sarcastic when I typed that “surely the media wouldn’t get it wrong.” I have to say that this blog and people’s opinions have got me thinking of how much the media does influence our lives. It seems they just want to put a good story on our TV screens and other resources and simply not worry about the truth in the story?
Angel,
To answer your questions…
I don”t swear on TV because you mainly see me on PG and G rated programs, and people tune in to these shows expecting a certain standard of decorum, and as it is my job to do so, I deliver exactly that.
Can I ask why you want to know if I swear around my parents or people I meet in the street?
Will my answer be judged on your own value system, or will my answer be judged objectively?
I concur with your views on using swear words in a public place, around kids/elderly/god botherers – it’s up to all of us to make our communities a safe place to be for everyone, and that goes for language too.
xx aa
I always take other’s opinions seriously and judge them objectively Andrew. That is why I come on to your website as there are great discussions and opinions typed on here. Some of them certainly make me think. I do have to admit when I’m wrong though. That question I asked about why you don’t swear on TV. I didn’t think about that when I typed it and it is obvious why you don’t swear on TV. My apologies.
Now to answer your question in why I want to know whether you swear around your parents and people you meet in the street. You said it was a natural thing for you to do. I suppose I just wanted to know if you were one of the people that respected the people around you by not swearing when it offends other’s. You answered that question. Thank you!
I do have to say though, what is really getting on my nerves at the moment is parents telling their children off for swearing in public as it is offensive to other’s. The next minute they turn around and start swearing especially the “F” word in front of them. I certainly see that situation as a double standard.
I have enjoyed our discussion Andrew and yes I do swear as well. I’m not a religious person trying to convert you. That is all I have to say. I will leave you alone now on that subject.
Roscoe
Great read, I have passed the link to some friends already.
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